Podcast 21: Landlords vs Tenants: Who Pays For The Rising Cost Of Housing?

Podcast 21: Landlords vs Tenants: Who Pays For The Rising Cost Of Housing?

I got invited to speak on a round table on CBC The National, our national public broadcasting station. It was such an honour to be there representing the landlord’s perspective.

It’s such a polarizing issue, they had to cut it down to 11 minutes but we could have gone on for hours. We did actually, off camera.

So here we are, discussing the very same topic with the team. It’s an honest conversation from both sides of the spectrum, as we have renters, owners, landlords, and combinations of the mix at this table. We are becoming a renter nation, and a handful of landlords are having to bear the rising cost of housing. Tenants on the other hand, find that landlords are taking advantage of their situations, gouging them for the right to live. These are the extreme views of course, so let’s discuss.

If you’re watching this on YouTube, let us know what you think in the comments. If you’re listening to this on audio, we would love to hear your feedback somehow. Get in touch with us, and let’s talk.

Here’s the CBC video:
https://youtu.be/nPbwACK3KyQ

Schedule a 15-minute Zoom call with Ken:
https://www.broadviewavenue.ca/appointments

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PODCAST (VIDEO):

Podcast 21: Landlords or Tenants: Who Pays For The Rising Cost Of Housing?


PODCAST (AUDIO):


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  • So I was just on cbc, not too long on the national, which is actually really cool, but it was a really controversial topic and I do want to address it in today's podcast. and that is the difference between landlords and tenants. And it's really a housing affordability crisis that we're in. And who's paying for the increase in prices?

    Right? Is it the landlord's responsibility or is it tenant's responsibility? Mm-hmm. , it was kind of cool. They set us on the round table between all the tenants, landlords, like different spectrums. And I was representing the land, the landlord side of it, and there's a lot of hate on. . I think there's just a lot of hate towards landlords in general, but it's so silly, and I know all you guys here understand this and maybe people listen to this podcast understand as well too.

    Uh, but if there's no landlords, there's no place for people to rent for. Exactly. Yep. Right. And then, okay, so the tenant's side, I'll play the devil's advocate for example. Right. Cause I know they're arguments and the argument is saying that it's, we're the ones driving up the prices. If it wasn't for landlords buying properties, prices wouldn't be so expensive.

    Mm. You know, I think there was a study done, um, last year, this year that 20% of purchasers were investors only 20%. Mm-hmm. . So the other four fifths, the other 80% are actually end users. Exactly. I don't know if that's true or not, but, um, anyway, at the end of the day, I think that I, I don't, so yes, taking a real estate property and, and like somebody's home and financializing it, making it like, you know, charging money for it, making a profit.

    is the controversial issue. Mm-hmm. tenants don't like that. They want their housing for free. Mm-hmm. or cheap . Right. But you know what, I saw the best comment. I actually have it open here and it says that, uh, housing investors like Kenneth are the bane of all Canadian housing market. So he's treating housing like stocks all leverage, meaning he can't afford these properties.

    He's just using rent to pay off his mortgages, but before fully paying off the mortgage. He will go then buy another property. Then he has the audacity to complain about rising interest rates. If you can't afford something, don't buy it. It's like the person using a credit card buy 3000 and then complain about high credit card interest.

    He gets no sympathy from me. Sure. I totally understand what that means, , but somebody said, somebody else said, which is true. The reasonable person says he's using leg legit. He's running a legitimate business. Many businesses use leverage. Mm-hmm. and all businesses use leverage change Mr. Y to Hertz and housing, to rental cars and it's exact same situation.

    Mm-hmm. your envy is clouding your rationale. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Like that guy was, the first guy was just a hater. He is probably at home like just doing. Just hating on everywhere. There was a, uh, funny comment too that said something about how, uh, landlords, greed or something like that, or, or want a profit and then tenant, I gotta find it.

    But they said like, tenants hate or something are jealous. Tenants are jealous. . Yeah, but I shouldn't, like, we gotta little, little, little sensitive on that. Okay. Like, tenants aren't bad people. They're customers. They need a place to live. They wanna rent. Yeah. Either they choose to or they have to. Right.

    Because they don't have the capital to buy something. Yeah. Mm-hmm. , there's no shame in that. It's just the way it is. Or they're just moving into the city. They're trying to figure out which area they wanna be in. Mm-hmm. , you know, not all of them are, you know, bad. I don't think it's very much like team versus team, and it doesn't have to be Right.

    Landlord doesn't necessarily need to be against a renter or the other way around. Like we can definitely work together and there's always a need. Mm-hmm. and not everybody necessarily wants to buy either, but I think it's like, In Toronto, especially with the rental market, I think a lot of renters are angry and they don't really have anyone to place the blame on.

    Mm-hmm. , so it automatically goes onto the landlord. And fundamentally, it sounds like, you know, there are a lot of people who are actually angry with landlords because they don't have anyone to properly blame. Exactly. Yeah. But ultimately it feels like, you know, the system has sort of filled us, and this is why we're in a housing.

    Right. And why private landlords are now being relied upon to either improve existing housing stock mm-hmm. , or to even increase housing stock, right? Mm-hmm. . Well, the issue is, so, um, I was talking to some other people too about it, right? Like ideally it would be federal, the federal government providing housing.

    Mm-hmm. for sure. Right? But then that's what communism is really like. It's right. Like, it's like they shouldn't be providing housing for the, it's like they're relying on the private market, like the general people, everybody, the investors. To provide rental housing for people. Mm-hmm. , and I don't think there's anything wrong with that, because like investors will have interest, vested interest in keeping their property maintained.

    Mm-hmm. , because there's a lot of maintenance, there's a lot of inefficiencies that mm-hmm. if it's run by federally, centrally mm-hmm. by central government, that would happen. Right. A lot of corruption, a lot of, you know, all that kind stuff. Red tape bureaucracy. Pardon me? Red tape and bureaucracy. Yeah, absolutely.

    Mm-hmm. , because they. plans for things that are, um, universal. Mm-hmm. between all different locations and all different provinces. Mm-hmm. and cities and municipalities mm-hmm. and it's impossible. It's really hard to do that. Mm-hmm. and like, you know, why should taxpayers pay for that too, right. At the same time.

    Yeah. So, um, on the other hand, I understand the point of not keeping housing as a free market, like leaving to the free markets. supply's an issue. Mm-hmm. . Right? We can't build, like supply is the answer to everything, by the way. Yeah. It's just, if we created enough, then housing would be cheaper because there'd be more supply to pick from.

    Mm-hmm. Hmm. , right now we're limited, we're half, you know, half a million people coming to the country. Yeah. A hundred thousand starts housing completions, I should say maybe 200,000. Make hundred. Make it as fast. You can't make it as fast. And you know why we can't make it as fast red. red tape cuz Zoning cuz of, um, uh, nimbyism.

    Mm-hmm. , you know, if you own a house in a neighborhood, you don't want a 15 story apartment building as your neighbor. Mm-hmm. or even like a Tripo tape And Danforth matter. I actually don't mind that. I know you don't. I live at Pip and Danforth than we got the Yeah. I mean it's, it's just gonna bring better businesses into the area.

    Yeah. Density. Yeah. Yeah, density. Yeah, exactly. We talked about that in our last podcast, so one of the podcasts. But yeah, density for sure brings in a lot. Issues with that, right? Mm-hmm. , like a lot of capacity issues, traffic and, and just people you don't want in your neighborhood. So I totally get why mm-hmm.

    and forget about the nimbyism and zoning rules. What about like the productive capacity of construction crews? There's only so many cranes out there for sure. There's so many, you know, construction people, foremans and all kind of stuff. Like there's only so many that, yeah. And then the city just gets.

    Busy and busy traffic. Everything. Just so much traffic doubles up. Right. So due to construction, yeah. We need better infrastructure, but it's not in place. Yeah. And the need was like 10 years ago. We needed it 10 years ago. We needed it 20 years ago. Right. So yeah, you're right. So the infrastructure can't keep up to the growing pace of development.

    Mm-hmm. development can't keep up because there's, you know, first of all, getting permission to build mm-hmm. , and then also the ability for the crews to build. Mm-hmm. . We can't just keep up with the demand, but the problem is we need this demand because, , there's immigration coming into the country and the reason why we need immigration is because our workforce is aging.

    Yep. We're getting older. Uh, we're not getting as productive. We're not producing as much. Our GDP is going down per capita's. Going down, like per person is going down. Mm-hmm. , and that's a bad thing for our economy. Mm-hmm. , because we can't support our social services. It's like a pyramid scheme that's gonna like gone upside down.

    You know what I mean? It is, it's kind of crumbling around us at this point. It is. Yeah. So there's a global. Um, fight for immigration. Like, yes, everywhere in the world wants more immigrants. Yes. Coming in and everywhere else around the world is horrible. Like there's a lot of bad things going on in the world, so they wanna come to Canada where it's politically safe.

    Yeah, economically safe and all that stuff. But if our housing becomes too unaffordable, they're not gonna come here. And that's a conversation I had recently with, uh, someone that we recently moved into. . Uh, where they said that it's getting a little bit too expensive here, and they realize that if they just made the same income that they did, but they lived elsewhere.

    Yeah. Yeah. Which they can, because they can work remotely. , they would actually be living a lot better. So that was my comment on that sound bite at the CBC thing, where it says, if you can't afford to live there, there's other parts of Canada that you could live in. And I know it sounds like it didn't get well received for sure.

    Mm-hmm. , uh, like, I, I totally get it. It's controversial because moving is hard. Like nobody wants to just pick up their life. Mm-hmm. , especially if they here for 15 years, their kids are in school or whatever. Mm-hmm. and just move. But like, if you really have to make that. do it. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Like there's nothing wrong with going like Calgary or whatever, right?

    Like there's people moving to Calgary now. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . Yeah. But people that have had their whole lives here don't want to uproot their lives to go somewhere else. Just because housing affordability isn't a thing. I get it. I totally get it. Yeah. It's hard. But who's paying for that? Increase in taxes.

    Don't really get it. Insurance. Mm-hmm. maintenance interest. Yeah. Taxes as already said. Taxes. Yeah. But et cetera. There's ex increased costs for housing. Mm-hmm. , who pays for that? The landlord. the tenant. I mean, I don't have the solution here, Ken. No, I'm just talking about it loud though. Right. I don't think anybody does.

    And if you did, you'd be Prime Minister, right? . So like nobody can solve it. It's a big problem. Yes. And that's why it's a crisis, affordability. Crisis. Mm-hmm. . But like, just theoretically, think about it. So you've lived there, your whole family's there, you've been there for 15 years. In that community, you have friends, you have, you know, kids in school and you can't just pick up and go cuz you're all of a sudden your landlord wants a place back.

    Mm-hmm. . So there's rules preventing that. In Ontario, you can't just take your place back because even though it's your. You can't kick it with 10 people's homes at the end of the day, totally fine with that. But you saying that if somebody has a one bedroom and they have a new kid and they need to move just a second bedroom, but then they can't afford the space because it's just double the rent now and they can't afford it, why do you have to be there?

    That's, that's all I'm saying. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. Hmm. like there's other options. Move to Bowmanville, move to like, you know, whatever. Yeah. Bury something, right? Mm-hmm. , like that's more affordable. There's still great jobs out there. Well, not as good jobs as a Toronto obviously, but has. and not as good transit. I mean, you can argue that, but like go transit, go train, go train.

    Yeah. Like it's just the city. Yeah. It's like 45 minutes. Yeah. Yeah. I think a bottom line comes down to change is bad. Like people don't like change. People are afraid of change. Change is good. I, sorry, I should say, but people don't like change. People don't like change. Exactly. They're very comfortable where, where their, where they are and what they know.

    It's kind of. , I was very scared for them to move. Mm-hmm. . So, and I think if you practice the flex, that muscle of change and always try to change things up. Mm-hmm. , you get used to it. It's like doing reps, you know what I mean? Like what's a. process of getting Jack like bad is right. It's about ripping muscle.

    Yeah. You know, it's like lifting weights is ripping muscle. You're damaging your body so that it can recover better. Yeah. Mm-hmm. makes you more adaptable. Well, that's it, right? Yeah. So I don't find anything more the common has said. I mean like, I dunno, something might hate what we're saying and rep what we represent as landlords.

    Yeah. I don't know. I have empathy for both sides. I really. Because I think even that guy that said, you know, he lived in that unit for 15 years, I think if he was in the position to also be a landlord, he would probably jump on the opportunity. Seems like he really loves and cares about his kids a lot.

    Mm-hmm. like, I think if he had the opportunity to do so, he would, he would probably do the exact same thing. . Right. So I don't, do you understand what I'm saying? Yeah, I do understand. I get it. Like, for example, for me, I'm, I'm like in both situations, like I have, I do have a tenant. Yeah. And then also I am a tenant.

    Yeah. Right. So it's like Exactly. I guess it comes down to the relationship you have with the landlord. Like my tenant's amazing. Like they're nice, they're like the sweetest people pay, they pay early. Like they don't bug me or anything like that. And vice versa. Same thing with us. Like we don't say any.

    really give them any problems. Yeah. We have a rental increase that's happening in March by like the, the standard 2.5%. Mm-hmm. perfectly fine with that. Yeah. It is what it is. Right. So 2.5% increase for your rent, but inflation's running at seven or 8%. So theoretically your property itself, the one that you own Yeah, it's going up by seven or eight.

    Oh yeah. My, my, my mortgage is up. hired huge. Now forget about your mortgage, your maintenance fees go up too. My maintenance fees actually did go up too. That's what I'm saying. It was like a nice what? Saying, so why are we mandated by two and a half percent? Yeah. But also spread percent, spread that across 15 years.

    I mean, that It's just compounds. It compounds, yeah. And it gets further, further away. Yep. Yep. Mm-hmm. . Right. So that's my gripe about it. And I totally get what you're saying, Michelle, about how No, but I also, I also understand the landlords, like we purchased that pre-construction. Eventually. We'll, we'll be landlords and we'll be in, you know, the same, the same boat.

    I just. , we need to have empathy for both sides. Mm-hmm. . And it can't be like a us versus them. We need, we'll work together. You're talking together. We're not talking about the relationships. Cause I get along great with all my tenants. Right. So it's, it's more a, but what I'm saying is those people that are angry, bad landlords and bad tenants.

    Yeah. Well yeah, there's definitely both. And that's what Landlord tenant board is supposed to help you protect your Well, they don't. Well they do. It's just the long wait times. It's a long but process. And everybody deserves the right to be heard and have a fair trial, if you will. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but, so yes, I am, but it definitely is failing landlords.

    I think on that side, there's a lot of horror stories out there, like why is it in some cases tenants are not paying their rent for like 11 months before you can even receive, because the late times, no, I know. In theory it was, that's where it's failing, like how it was back in the day. Yeah. It, it took two months and then you would get your hearing and then you'd be able to recoup the costs.

    Yeah. Yeah. So, um, yeah, it takes the time to screen the proper tenants properly. Mm-hmm. and choose write tenants so you have a good relationship with them. Yeah. But ultimately as a landlord, that's what you're doing. You're providing customer service to mm-hmm. somebody to rent a place and they're paying for that.

    It's also a risk of doing business as well. Like Yeah. Getting a bad tenant there. That's a risk that landlords knowing you take. Right, right. Yes. Um, so it's talking about the empathy part though. I like, I totally get that, but, You know, haven't, like, I don't wanna boot them out either. I don't want to have to, you know, make them uproot and all kind of stuff, and they should be entitled to live life.

    You know, the number one rule of being a landlord? Mm-hmm. , you know what that is? No Customer service. Oh yeah. But you know what it is. No. Yes. What is it? No. It's quiet enjoyment. You should give your tenants quiet enjoyment. You shouldn't be harassing them. Mm-hmm. , you have to give 'em the right to enjoy the property.

    Do uh, if they wanna live like pigs, love 'em to live like pigs. It's okay. It's not, it's not your thing. As long as you're not damaging the place. Yeah. Right. As long as they're office damage. That's true. True. You have to give 'em quiet enjoyment. And that's actually defined in the legislation, in the, uh, residential tendencies Act.

    So anyway, um, my point is that I'm not trying to kick them out because whatever reason. if they need to move, whatever reason. Mm-hmm. , if their life moves and they can't move anywhere else because they can't afford it, why do they have the right to stay there, is what I'm saying? Mm-hmm. , like why do they, why do they feel, sorry, I shouldn't say the right.

    Why do they feel entitled and feel like they should stay there and that their life shouldn't change? Because the whole world's financial picture changed. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. And the landlord's one left. Carrying the bag. Holding the bag. I 100% agree with you, but. if you put yourself in their shoes. I, I think they just feel like they're, I don't know, being the victim against a wall.

    Back into a wall. Yeah. Like a victim. Yeah. Well, and not everyone has the ability to be like, okay, this is the situation I'm faced with, so I'm gonna do this. And I can also empathize with the landlord. Like, not everyone has the ability to think like that. Mm-hmm. . Well, do you know what I mean? Well, that's, that's their just, um, their reaction.

    They just have Right. Once everything. Oh, by the way, they don't think about. , you know, the landlords have to pay extra. They don't. They just react. They're not, because a lot of people think that landlords are greedy and yada yada. Yeah. And they're like billionaires and stuff like that. I get it. Yeah. So that's what I went just as advocate.

    No , I'm, excuse me, I'm with you on that. That's why I went on that, on tv, national TV to, to talk about that. Right. try to mm-hmm. only add so much time to talk about it. So here we are, continuing the conversation. Yeah, because I get it like, it's hard, like, you know, the net worth. Real estate owners, people that own real estate is significantly higher than a tenant population.

    It just, it is. It's cuz of leverage. Cuz over time, compounds and tenants, if you have the money in your hand, you're not gonna put it in a, like a savings account or whatever. You're gonna spend it, you're gonna do, your lifestyle's gonna change for sure. Whereas if you have that financial commitment of four savings through buying property, you have to pay your mortgage.

    Mm-hmm. . So you make sacrifices along the way. Oh. And whatever money that they do manage to put in savings is actually infallible to inflation. , which compounds the problem even further. Right. And market fluctuations too. Yeah. So, um, yes, the net worth of property owners, because that's the definition of an asset Yeah.

    Is generally higher. Yeah. Right. So yes, landlords can absorb more shocks economically, but should they, that's the question. Should they, if they're not the ones living there, they're ones providing safe housing. Mm-hmm. and nothing's really changed in terms of. , like, it's just the, the cost of everything went up, like all the input costs of owning that property went up.

    Why should the landlord swallow it unless they have the mortgage paid off. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . And they can choose to, and that's a different story, but Yeah. Most people don't. Yeah. So I just, I don't understand it. Yeah. I don't understand it. And I'm empathetic. I want to hear what people have to say. I would love to, you know, hear what they have to say.

    Mm-hmm. . But like, if you truly are one of those tenants that needs social housing, . Mm-hmm. . Then go get social housing. Help represent Yeah. Not from the private landlords. Yeah. Yeah. But that's an issue in itself. That could be a whole other video. Cause I think the wait time is like six to eight years. Yeah.

    It's it's a big, long lineup. It's ridiculous. That's a long's. Yeah. But at the same time, like, so private enterprises, private landlords aren't gonna do it. Private enterprises, like those billion dollar companies that they're talking about the billion funds. Why should they do it? Yeah. They won. . You know, like, I, I was trying to understand this too.

    I was trying to talk like, I think, I don't think it's, I don't think this made it onto the camera, but, uh, during that segment. Yeah. But like, why should the billionaires, billionaire dollar companies do it? Because those billionaire dollar companies are not from like one rich person, Warren Buffet go in, they're saying, I'm gonna make housing for everybody.

    Mm-hmm. , it's not that. It's made up of every person that invests in RSPs. Mm-hmm. and TFSAs and funds and whatever. It's your savings. It's the retirements, it's the teachers. Mm-hmm. . It's the pensioners. Yep. That money is put. , these funds that buy this real estate. Yeah. And they have to have a reasonable return.

    Yep. Mm-hmm. . So they need their five, six, 7% return, 4, 5, 6, 7% return. Right. Yeah. So that these ones building these houses, so why are they doing this for break even or negative, if anything? Or loss. Mm-hmm. . So they have to make a profit too. Yeah. Not to mention the upkeep and maintenance and all that kind of stuff.

    Yeah. . I just don't get it. Like it's not gonna be the problem of the landlord. It's not gonna be the problem of the billionaire funds. Billion dollar funds. Mm-hmm. , trillion dollar funds, whatever it is. Mm-hmm. , it's the responsibility of the government. Cause that's what the a hundred percent. And also in BC they have something which is like a rental subsidy program.

    I don't know if they have it in Ontario, but it's like, , it's not housing. Like you could go to a private landlord and based on your income, the government tops you up. That's how it should be done. I don't understand why they don't do that. Yeah, I don't understand the, okay. So we know that the government's not efficient enough to build the, the housing, the houses.

    Yeah. We don't, they're not gonna build 1.5 million, 1.5 million houses in 10 years. Yeah. . But what they can do is, uh, incent the private developers to build it. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. and subsidize the tenants that need the, need it the most. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. give them a subsidy Yeah. So that they can afford the market rents.

    Yeah. Mm-hmm. a hundred percent. It seems like the easiest solution solution at all. It's a solution. Yeah. Yeah. You know, there's a fine balance because the more money you print, the more money you give out to, you know, the people that don't meet that criteria that are under the, you know, social welfare that need that help mm-hmm.

    it's gonna create more inflation cuz obviously it's gonna print more money. Right. So it's a fine balance. , but I think there should be. But its being done. It's being done in VC already. It should be done here. Yeah. Yeah. And that's how you solve the housing crisis, in my opinion. Mm-hmm. . I agree. Create more supply fund the people that need it the most to get that market rent.

    Mm-hmm. . And when you have the market rents based on supply mm-hmm. , then it'll just equalize and normalize. And that's what competition is. So many people say capitalism is a bad thing, but like that's what competition's supposed to be doing. Mm-hmm. , right? You have a choice between, I don't know, cars, Mercedes, or BMWs, just say, or like Toyota.

    Right. Yeah. You have a choice. There's different price points for them all, but there's different offerings. Mm-hmm. , right? Maybe you want the luxury, luxury leather, or maybe you don't wanna pay for that luxury leather, so then you have a choice, right? And that's how it should be for housing. If we had more supply.

    Yeah. The bull leather. The what? . We're just talking vegan leather. No. Talking about earlier. There's like an option for bull leather in, uh, what car is it? Bentley's. Bentley. goes Michael. Well, I guess bull markets, right? So that's why you wanna, I mean, ultimately the, the problem is that we need a solution that brings us to an equilibrium, and it's very difficult to get to that point because not only do we have a lot of people who are just butting heads over the wrong issues, but we also have a lot of red tape.

    Mm-hmm. . And there's just always the argument of, no, we don't have enough money, so we're not going to subsidize this. I mean, everything's being cut from healthcare to, uh, QP workers, like mm-hmm. , where are they going to put the money at the end of the day? Yeah. What do you mean? Where are they gonna put the money?

    Like they're, where are they gonna decide to put it? When are they going to decide? Or if are, uh, are they ever going to decide to? Properly fund a program, a government, yeah. They'll incentivize, uh, private, uh, builders or, uh, developers to actually start building and then sort of helping people get into those units so we can actually reach that equilibrium because it's not going to work with all those red tape, because that's already, we've already started off on the wrong footing with the housing crisis, with too much government interference in the wrong direction.

    So now we need some more government interference to actually get to that point. Government support. Government support, right. So, To actually get to that point where we reach the equilibrium, but we need that push. Sounds good in theory for sure. And I think it, uh, makes sense. It just, you know, at the end of the day when you're dealing with people, you're dealing with so many different opinions and so many different, you know, choices and people's freedoms and it's, it's hard to please everybody.

    At the end of the day. You can't please everything. You can't, that's a thing. People are always in fight of this perfect like utopia and doesn't exist and it never will. You just have to work, take responsibility to work for yourself. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Get to work hard. Yeah. Can't get the handouts. I, I understand people that can't work, so those are the people that need the social sport for sure.

    But the people that can work if you're just lazy. Yeah. There's no excuses to make those comments on YouTube. Like, seriously, just like, we're gonna get more now. You know? Just be, be a good human. I dunno how to say it, but it's, especially if you're, if you're in the comments and you're. like deep down, you know, that you would wanna be in that position as Stu and in as well.

    Why hate just use that as inspiration to work hard and get to the change the same, the same level. Like I don't understand that. I don't know. So I, I think, um, there's an opportunity here if you are in the position to be able to provide housing and be a landlord. , you know, uh, like, I'm not gonna get a lot of hate for this, but like, there, there's, there's an advantage if you have capital.

    Yes. Seriously, because there's a housing shortage. There's definitely a need. There's strong demand. Mm-hmm. . Right. And if you could provide that housing good, safe housing that's affordable for people at least more competitively, affordable, I should say. Mm-hmm. , then you'll win in the long run. Yeah. Yeah. For sure.

    It's unfair advantage, almost like if you have the capital. Mm. and there's so many different strategies on, and instead of finding excuses and being the victim mm-hmm. and all that. Mm-hmm. , there's so many different ways, like you're saying, Michelle. Yeah. To. Make it happen. Yeah. Mm-hmm. . Right? Because really a lot of people forget that all you need is 5% down to buy a property.

    Mm-hmm. , right. If you're less than 500,000, up to 500,000. Yeah. And where do you say, where do you buy 500,000 Go to Red Deer. I got one. Alberta. I won. I got one right now where gonna come out? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. at Studio. But like, not everyone wants, wants in the studios. Right. But at least get in, you could rent the, you could rent it out.

    What if you have a family union to the country? Oh yeah. Right, right. So that's what I'm saying. You can go to. P I or something. I don't know. I'm just don't the province, but like you don't have to also sell like the nicest, newest condo either. Like, I've sold a place. Yes. Scarborough. Those condos you can still get with reasonable.

    Yeah. Less than 500 K. Yeah, you could get it. Like I sold one up in a Toboco. Yeah. A couple years ago. And it was like three bedrooms. A huge Yeah. Could definitely renovated it for, I think we sold it for 400 something. You could renovated it. That's so right. Sure. And it's like, it's nice. Sure. So for those people that have less than 20% down, you actually get an advantage in your terms of your mortgage, cuz it's CMHC insured.

    Cuz you, you're required to get insurance if mortgage insurance if you're under 20%. Mm-hmm. , which means that the banks will look at you favorably and they'll say, oh, this guy's insured, if he defaults on his payments, the uh, mortgage insured is gonna help the banks out or whatever. Right. Whatever, however it works.

    Mm-hmm. so they get a better rate. So yes, you're paying the premium, but also you get a better rate. Mm-hmm. . So don't let that to be excuse that, oh, I need 20% down to. Get 'em with 5% down. Yeah. I think so many people was like, ah, like everything's over a million dollars. It isn't make a sacrifice. Yeah.

    What's a million dollars? Like why? Why is that the number that I don't know everyone's afraid of? I have no idea. It's just a number. Know where people got it. Why is everybody afraid of 1.3 billion of debt that we have as a country? You know what I mean? Like why that number could be a hundred million. It could be $50 trillion.

    Yeah. It doesn't really matter. It's irrelevant at the end of the day. Mm-hmm. , because we're gonna print more money to pay that, like to pay service the debt, and also create social services. and in theory we're gonna inflate that debt away and we'll never pay that debt off. Mm-hmm. . But as long as the quality of life is improving for the general population.

    Mm-hmm. , what's wrong with printing more money? You steal from future generations by, you know, creating inflation. I totally get that. And that's not right. So there's a balance and the government wants 2%. Mm-hmm. , you know, like seven percent's too much, but two percent's. Okay. They're gonna drain your account by 2% every year.

    Mm-hmm. . But by doing that, you'll never have to pay off the 1.3 billion in debt that we have as a country. , but you'll provide social services, you create new infrastructure, you'll create new roads, new jobs, new et cetera. New, new immigration programs, new whatever to make our lives all better. Nothing wrong with that.

    Yep. We just gotta keep the ball rolling. Just gotta keep productive. Yep. At end, it's all about productivity. This is why the focus on GDP matters so much. Mm-hmm. Gross matic domestic product, meaning as a country, as an aggregate, how much are we producing overall? As a population. Yep. Meaning that what's our output, you know, cuz productivity's output, right?

    Mm-hmm. , what are we outputting, what are we creating? What are the, what's the thing that we're creating for real estate agents? For us, it's the guidance and support and consulting to make sure that you're making the right decision on your biggest transaction of your life. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . Whether it's selling or buying, that's our product.

    And Sure. It's not productive cause you're not necessarily creating a product that we can sell and whatever, but like people need homes to live in. Yep. Yeah. It's the service. . Okay. Well anyway, my solution is . So solution, honestly, in my opinion, is to create more supply. And if you can't create more supply government subsidized government subsidies or individuals that need it.

    Yeah. So that they can buy market, market housing. Mm-hmm. instead of creating your own affordable housing, which is very difficult. Or at least doing both in conjunction with it. Yeah. Is the answer to it all. Yeah. Cool. It comes down to supply and demand. That's what Singapore. or the two tier system, right?

    Two housing. Yeah. The HTB Flat housing system. Yeah. Tell me more about that. So from what I understand, um, the Singaporean government one builds the flats and they have a roster of people who apply on a wait list to actually get into it. And I believe they're assigned, uh, to the family who shoulder the mortgage.

    But it's spread over a long period of time because it's a government program. Mm. Um, and I believe that they pretty much have all those years to pay it down. Um, and it's not an amount that would cause for them, cause them to not live comfortably, but at the same time, I believe they're actually allowed to pass that mortgage down to their inheritors.

    Um, further down the line so it creates an equilibrium where, you know, some families don't have too many kids, right? So they'll just have one kid who can just take over the mortgage and then continue to pay that down, but also continue to live in the place and have comfortable safe housing. So it's really long ization is that's what it is.

    I believe it is. Yeah. And it's, uh, government subsidized housing where they actually build it for them and place them in there with the program. I mean, okay, that'd be great if we could do that. But how come we can't do that? How come we can't create enough? But they can, the funny thing is, is that I actually met a couple of people at a wedding, um, who lived in those programs and they said, oh my God, you have a backyard.

    And I think that's the mentality that we have here. Um, everybody wants space, everybody wants greenery. Everybody wants to have that. Privacy. Privacy, yeah. That's why everyone thinks. Getting into the market is gonna cost a million dollars. Yeah. And that's also why we have so much resistance to condo developments.

    Mm-hmm. , well, I mean, we are like the second biggest land mass in the world, so, I mean, or I think it is, right? Yeah. So, um, yeah, we should, but yeah, urban sprawl is bad. I, I get that too. Mm-hmm. , we're definitely entitled, but I think that, I think density is gonna happen and you can't avoid it. In order to make things affordable, we have to squeeze into more spaces.

    and create more supply. So if any anybody has a solution for that, that'd be great. How to create more maybe modular homes, you know, love modular homes. Yeah. All right. Anyway, with that, we gotta go, gotta go.